Historian in Chief says 1918 flu pandemic ‘probably ended the Second World War,’ –  THIS MIGHT BE A POST ABOUT POLITICS 

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 08/11/2020 at 12:24 • Filed to: politics

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What WWII did not look like

“In 1917 ... the great pandemic certainly was a terrible thing where they lost anywhere from 50 to 100 million people.  Probably ended the Second World War, all the soldiers were sick. That was a terrible situation.”

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f86sabre > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:29

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The guy is just a waste. Really. At this point I’ve blocked his name on most social media. Just waiting for November. 

jminer > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:30

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I saw this and was dumbstruck around the idiocy of it.

It is hard to surprise us anymore by what comes out of his mouth but this one was surprising...

ttyymmnn > f86sabre 08/11/2020 at 12:31

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Yeah, I really did think twice about posting this. Definitely getting weary of it all, but this one hit close to home for me, being an armchair historian and all. 

ttyymmnn > jminer 08/11/2020 at 12:31

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Every time I think we’ve reached the bottom, he keeps digging.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:34

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For Sweden > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:36

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So you’re telling me the guy who’s said dumb things since at least the 1980s said something dumb?

Though if he had not fired Tanner and Rut, this virus would have ended by now.

jminer > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:37

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Yep - and it also kills me how people keep looking for the bits of truth and sanity in what he does.

Like the executive orders last week 3 /4 were useless or very misleading . His pause on evictions was not that, it was a direction to officials to look at the problem. The expanded unemployment requires already broke states to chip in and also requires everyone re-apply and another change to states programs (that went so well last time). Finally the payroll tax cut isn’t a cut but a deferral and will have to be paid back by those who it impacts.

Yes the news cycle over the weekend was about how good this all was.

The student loan bit was objectively good though - so I’ll take the 1/4.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:38

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If it were anyone else, especially anyone with a D for their representative party, the Reich-wing Hate Machine would be frothing with apoplectic rage to have them removed from office for being mentally unfit.

ttyymmnn > jminer 08/11/2020 at 12:40

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Following his own model. The best way to get rich is to have other people pay for things. This is a national crisis and it requires a federal response. 

Grindintosecond > For Sweden 08/11/2020 at 12:44

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Totally about Lamborghini pronunciations, yet it's 'porsh' and interruptions.

Just Jeepin' > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/11/2020 at 12:45

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That’s one maddening part a bout this. The GOP has absolutely lost any moral high ground to complain about any future Democratic p resident’s actions . There’s practically nothing anyone could do that this president hasn’t done and they’ve enabled the behavior.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:50

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Eh....that seems about right for him

Anyhoo lemme run the math here...hmm

Yes I estimate it will be at least 300000 years before the all americans are fat and stupid stereotype goes away....and that will be mostly coz even the remaining cockroaches will be dead then

:P

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:54

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I can’t even anymore with this shit. Even George W. step ped up to the plate and acted presidential after 9/11.

Svend > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:54

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I read an article online by the Independent, they even ask historians what part it played in ending WW1, and they said it affected both sides and the number of soldier deaths form it was about 100,000 and played almost no part in ending WW1.

One of trumpies aids apparently came out later and said he, ‘misspoke’. Because that’s what you want, a leader that constantly mispeaks. Doh.

“We have battled with Jim Yong for years, so we are taking the pro active lead and will invade South Carolina”, 

“Erm, he meant North Korea”, 

“Yes, I meant South Korea”, 

“No, he honestly meant North Korea". 

jminer > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 12:55

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Yes it does, but his divisive policies and rhetoric have ruined the prospect of unit ing us. Even if he gets voted out I don’t see the damage as easily undone.

This is said from a red state where I see very few masks and am regularly called nasty things when I leave the house in a mask...

ttyymmnn > Svend 08/11/2020 at 12:59

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Most Americans wouldn’t notice. History isn’t big deal over here. I get daily emails from Quora, most about WWII and LOTR, which is about right for me. The other day, somebody asked, “How much did the British contribute to WWII?” I’m sure there are plenty of Americans who think that Hitler wasn’t defeated until the Americans pitched in on  D-Day.

ttyymmnn > jminer 08/11/2020 at 13:00

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Since our own Republican governor instated a mask mandate, cases and deaths have, for the most part, been falling steadily. Compliance here in Austin is quite good, at least at stores etc. Very few wearing masks at parks and trails. We take ours when we go walking and only wear it when we pass people. But fortunately, no harassment.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Just Jeepin' 08/11/2020 at 13:01

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Yup. My cow-orkers are almost all ultra-Reich-wing wackos. Walked into a office yesterday and they were watching the “Press Secretary” and they were commenting on how good she was and how “they” all hate her because she’s attractive.

No. We hate her because she stands up there and lies to the press and public. 

onlytwowheels > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:05

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Svend > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:08

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Ye’, I’m sick of hearing, ‘if it wasn’t for us, you Brits would be speaking German’.

The easiest reply is, ‘yes, if it wasn’t for the Germans, Americans would be speaking English’.

To be fair, many French in the last number of decades didn’t know British was in the D-Day landings. Because French history books only had pictures from America, Canada, France, etc... Because they gave the pictures free, while the British asked a small fee, the money would go to a benevolent society to aid caring for the veterans of the war.

But it does surprise me how many Americans know bullet points or misconceptions or understandings of the second World war.

In the U.K. were taught the good and bad of both sides in the conflict and how it affected the cold war, etc... 

benn454 > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:12

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 And we thought W was embarrassing. Simpler times.

ttyymmnn > Svend 08/11/2020 at 13:13

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In the U.K. were taught the good and bad of both sides in the conflict and how it affected the cold war, etc...

In the US, you’d be hard pressed to find people who even knew generally the years that WWI and WWII took place, let alone Korea and Vietnam.  

ttyymmnn > benn454 08/11/2020 at 13:16

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I’m a lifelong Democrat and I miss Dubya. That’s really saying something. The eulogy he gave for his father was quite moving. 

fintail > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:16

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Dementia is a hell of a drug.

benn454 > Svend 08/11/2020 at 13:17

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 Part of the problem is that World History is an elective. In many school districts, the only history class absolutely required for graduation is US History, which, unsurprisingly, focuses on the US involvement in WWII. So many Americans' only knowledge of the war is the things we were a part of.

benn454 > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:26

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 And he actually, you know, went to WORK and did his JOB after 9/11. 

Svend > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:26

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In school early on were told about WW1, then WW2, etc... later were taught (or at least were) how the killing of Duke Franz Ferdinand led up to WW1, that lead to hitler, his book, German society, etc... which led to WW2, then lessons learned were used against the Russians in the Cold War, but how many Germans didn’t get trials because it would make the Russians aware of how the British and Americans got their information, showing them our hand, etc...

If you do history, you will be taught about the Boar War, the war in Nepal and why the Nepalese Gurghas fight in the British forces for the U.K. (and some for India since Indian independence and how the number of garrisons were split between the two countries) . Of course then there’s the wars, etc... in America, the Opium Wars and so much more.

Later on in life the BBC does documentaries from all sides of different conflicts, how many Germans actually cared for or buried injured or dead allied forces and how families and villagers, etc... have through history tended to the graves. 

Svend > benn454 08/11/2020 at 13:32

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Here we’re taught it through school, getting further into the nitty gritty bits as you get older going through the classes, I think it was elective for me from age 15-16, can’t recall exactly as it was quite a while back.

But as you get older your made more aware that although the axis powers did horrendous things, the allied powers weren’t by any means innocent and light.

How certain battles defined Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc... as countries who didn’t need the mother land as much as they believed or meant to believe.

Future next gen S2000 owner > jminer 08/11/2020 at 13:40

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People are terrible.

fintail > benn454 08/11/2020 at 13:40

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W at least showed humanity (his problem was those around him - Cheney, Rummy, etc).   He looks like Lincoln compared to the current corrupt circus.

ttyymmnn > fintail 08/11/2020 at 13:40

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I think I would like Thighland. 

benn454 > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:41

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 In my district, World History was split into two semester-long classes. I was Prehistory to the Renaissance, and II was Age of Discovery to today. Problem was, by the time we got to WWII, it was already May and the teacher was desperately trying to get us to pay attention when we were more concerned with what we were going to do over summer break. There was simply no time or student interest to attempt anything after V-J Day.

benn454 > fintail 08/11/2020 at 13:48

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 For all his faults, and all the opinions I disagreed with, I can at least respect the man for sincerely trying to do the job as best he could.

jminer > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:54

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That’s good - the county health commissioner where I live recommended a mask mandate to the council and got a lot of death threats so she quit.

The county council has not created a mask mandate and neither has our Governor.

We do the same on outside walks.

fintail > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 13:55

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He can probably grab ‘em without repercussions.

jminer > Future next gen S2000 owner 08/11/2020 at 13:55

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A lot more of them than I though a few years ago yes.

ttyymmnn > benn454 08/11/2020 at 14:02

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I took a US history course in undergrad and they spent one day on the Vietnam War. One. Day.

The way I see it, and Svend alluded to this in his posts, is that history classes tend to teach what happened, but they don’t teach why it happened. Nor do they teach the flow of history, how one thing led to another. I counsel people who are trying to learn music history not to study separate periods, but start at the beginning and pay attention to what changed. Because nothing happens in a vacuum, events influence events, there is (almost) always a thread that can be followed, even when the thread changes color.

Darkbrador > Svend 08/11/2020 at 14:04

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Hey, if not for the French, you brits would still be speaking .... ... uh ...

( what would you be speaking, actually, s ome Celtic slang ? Latin ? Viking ?)

ttyymmnn > fintail 08/11/2020 at 14:06

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“Locker room banter”

ttyymmnn > jminer 08/11/2020 at 14:08

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About  20 years ago, I was a finalist for the trumpet teaching gig at Mizzou. For various reasons, I’m glad I didn’t get it. Lovely campus, though. Still, I think I’m glad I’m not in MO right now. Texas is bad enough, but at least our governor seems interested in fixing his mistakes on Covid. 

Svend > Darkbrador 08/11/2020 at 14:13

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Lol. Well our Cumbrian dialect is a mixture of old Norse, and Cumbric (which is part of the Bryphonic Celtic g roup), etc... w hich is still spoken today. S o there is that.

jminer > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 14:14

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There are many things about Missouri that I love but overall it’s not a great state to live in. Our state’s actions in response to this has made me even more certain that my wife and I should leave.

20 years ago it wasn’t that bad, but it’s gotten a lot worse since then. Our legislature has been a super-majority republican since then and have concentrated on attacking female reproductive rights, the abilities of minorities to vote, oppose any restrictions on lobbyist gifts, expand gun rights, cut education to the bone, enshrine a gay marriage ban in our state’s constitution and cut social programs into non-existence among many other things.

It’s a pretty state in the Ozarks, cheap as hell to live in and has a decent sized tech hub in St Louis.  Those are what’s made it bearable but the benefits are outweighed by the negatives for me now.

ttyymmnn > jminer 08/11/2020 at 14:16

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Come to Austin! We are an island of blue in a sea of red, and there is a slim chance that the state will turn blue (in Congress)  this November.

Darkbrador > Svend 08/11/2020 at 14:20

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jminer > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 14:25

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I was in Austin for work last f all and quite enjoyed it. To be honest though I ’m not going to m ove from our horrible Missouri summers to somewhere worse. Pretty firmly Cali bound at this point.

And I think it’s only a matter of time that the state of Texas starts to enact state-wide bans of local policies to curb some of that Austin flair . Missouri started doing that a couple years ago. Anytime St Louis or KC enacted a policy like raising the minimum wage the state would then pass a law barring them from doing so.

ttyymmnn > jminer 08/11/2020 at 14:28

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The state has already done some of those things. Austin passed a plastic shopping bag and the “small government” Republicans canceled it. Fortunately, most people, at least in Austin, were already trained, so we still see very few bags blowing around. Up around Dallas, an city passed an ordinance banning fracking, and the “small government” Republicans stepped in again and nullified their ordinance. So we’re not completely free from that BS. 

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 14:30

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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Svend 08/11/2020 at 14:41

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But without the American lend lease program for equipment there would have been a lot less equipment to fight the Germans, especially in Russia. That Russian winter worked out well there too. 

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 14:43

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Yeah you need a whole course on Vietnam, French, leading up to it,  etc..

Svend > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 08/11/2020 at 14:51

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It was not the be all and end all of the war though. 

Ye’, the Lend Lease was a great offer from a friend, we only finished paying off the debt in 2006.

Not being narky or anything. But the Lend Lease wasn't as great a deal as it's made to look or sound. 

benn454 > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 16:09

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Yeah, because that’s totally enough time to explain decades of colonialism, global politics, and sheer pooch screwing well enough to do it justice.

 Absolutely. I didn't attend a university, but I did take AP US History, and even that class, while dispensing with the American exceptionalism I had been taught beforehand, still was mostly just rote memorization of names, dates, and locations. The difference was in the level of detail. There was simply more stuff to memorize.

Monkey B > ttyymmnn 08/11/2020 at 16:11

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broken record time...but this fucking guy has said about 8000 things that should have prevented him from even running for office...why are we here? I just don’t get it. 

Howard Dean, man this guy must be super salty ...all he did was make a weird noise.

ttyymmnn > Monkey B 08/11/2020 at 16:38

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Ah, those were simpler times. When a man could make a scream in excitement to get his base riled up, when today a man brag about grabbing women by the pussy and still get elected. My head is full of fuck.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 08/11/2020 at 22:30

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Winter in some ways helped as it froze up the muddy/shitty russian roads. The germans were overstretched in August let alone by nov. German war plans were all set on quickly surrounding and capturing/killing the soviet armies close to the border. They really had no thorough plan how to move 1k miles to moscow when they couldn’t rely on the rail lines. 

A lot did freeze, but the germans pulled troops away from the front, to work in arms factories and so that they would have to send fewer supplies.

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